Author Topic: advice please on how to _cause_ or worsen ejaculatory anhedonia  (Read 18596 times)

someguy99

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advice please on how to _cause_ or worsen ejaculatory anhedonia
« on: October 04, 2013, 03:05:07 AM »
Hello,

I am a 26 year old male with psychiatric diagnoses (ADHD, autism, polytoxicomania) and my problem is that I experience (too much) pleasure by masturbation and related sexual impulses/instincts. Please don't try to avoid the question, by telling me how awful your condition is to you and/or how my intentions/motivations are wrong. That might be true to you, but I am not like you and not like other people, neither psychologically nor socially (in ways very difficult for you to comprehend), and there are sound and valid reasons to my motivation to decrease sexual pleasure. So please just accept that this is so.
My goal is to basically have the same effects of masturbation (decreased need to have sex, decreased arousal) but without feeling pleasure by it, ideally without exhaustion either. The immediate reason is that sexual activity is disproportionately rewarding to me. It is like doing tiny hits of amphetamine during the day and many big ones when masturbating, but only if I am mentally occupied by women and sex and not with anything useful. Since I have an addictive/obsessive personality by default, I am constantly challenged by that. If I wouldn't put in constant effort to control it, I would masturbate 5 times a day at least, just to get a clear mind for half an hour. But sexual pleasure worsens my ADHD issues considerably, because it exhausts my already impaired reward circuitry. I sometimes get extremely obsessive about sex and just think about women for hours, because the pleasure/reward drives me towards it. No matter if I watch porn or masturbate or not, all I ever do causes me to experience too much pleasure in association with women and sex, directly making everything else less pleasurable and less rewarding. This is awfully the more true, the less I masturbate, that is the less I ejaculate. I found that masturbating exactly once a day by schedule minimizes the absolute total sexual reward experienced per day.

My motivation is not to cause any physical or mental disadvantages and that leaves me at a loss on how to increase/cause EA effectively. However, EA is the only condition I know of that does exactly what I need to have, without enormous questionable side effects (like anti-androgens, SSRIs, castration, etc). I have been on SSRIs btw and most of them, except for effexor maybe, do cause a decrease in sexual pleasure. That is why they are good for PE, but exactly wrong for EA imo. It is even more so with antipsychotics.

I have read quite a bit about ejaculatory anhedonia and as far as I can tell there are various causes for (or rather contributing factors to) it, specifically:

1. general physical health issues:
That can be anything, from dietary deficits (maybe due to abnormalities in the digestive processes or inherited deficits in protein synthesis), to weakened immune systems, just being in extremely poor shape or just eating a very unhealthy diet. Quite some people have reported that certain supplements fixed their condition, such as lecithin.
To me it is out of question to do that. In fact, in my attempts to improve my conditions by supplements and nutrition, I have mostly increased the pleasure experienced by orgasm/ejaculation. I will explain that later.

2. Hormonal/neurological abnormalities:
I have read about basically three direct mechanisms here, which are either related to histamine, testosterone or catecholamines. While I don't know much about the former, it is pretty obvious how the latter would cause a lack of pleasure and excitement (because those hormones/neurotransmitters are directly involved in that process). How low testosterone would impair male potency is pretty obvious too.
So this isn't an option to me either, as all of those impairments would simultaneously impair physical and mental fitness and none of them can be switched on temporarily.

3. Just being genetically abnormal:
Not much to say about that. I have read about people being able to archive orgasm/ejaculation by just climbing or lifting themselves. I guess if you are born with some extremely specific spinal cord nerve abnormality that might be very well possible. The same way, some people might just randomly have whatever nerve or organ abnormalities that cause abnormal bodily functions. Not an option.

4. prostate abnormalities:
Such as enlarged prostate or somehow weakened or permanently impaired prostate (e.g. by past urinary tract or bladder infections). Interestingly, I have read that in almost all people suffering from BPH (enlarged prostate), there seems to be a constriction of the veins exiting the testicles, which causes the blood to be rerouted through the prostate, leading to an more than 100x increase in testosterone levels just in that vicinity but nowhere else. DHT (testosterone metabolite) is especially associated with abnormal prostate growth and function (link). Generally, obstruction of whatever testicular vessels seems to be extremely likely to lead to prostate and ejaculatory abnormalities.

Obviously this is very hard for me to reproduce. I have tried 'enlarging' or at least impairing the prostate by contracting muscles (excessive urination exercise, mental control) with no effect. I have tried obstructing nerves and vessels temporarily, but this didn't really work either, although someone claimed to be able to reproduce EA by just doing that somehow. I have tried pressing on the prostate through the rectum, but this also has very very little effect on anything. But the prostate is possibly my best shot at it, at least to my current knowledge.
Thankfully I have learned in all the EA threads, that ejaculation is not necessarily triggered by pleasure through penile stimulation (as I inevitably experience it), but that it can occur in relation to some other trigger. That trigger seems to point to the prostate somehow. I am often excessively aroused, leading to a lot of pre-ejaculatory fluid accumulating in the prostate, up to the point where I can really feel that it is full (it will eject in absence of arousal). It does however not cause anything near ejaculation.

I also tried separating orgasm and ejaculation, as it is described and supposedly possible by the many people trying to get off more, that is have more orgasms. While I have been able with extreme effort to have an actual orgasm (not an 'imaginary' one) without ejaculation, the reverse seems to be impossible to achieve. The way I experience it is, that I can manipulate the arousal and pleasure I experience, so to speak trick on my CNS, but that the process leading to ejaculation (which is a very specific response of internal contractions I have no direct control over whatsoever) will always occur as a result of it and only at a certain level of pleasure. Those contractions can be voluntarily disturbed a bit by randomly contracting the pelvic muscles. However, for all I know, the contractions itself cannot be caused by anything other than the pleasure experienced by penile stimulation.

In the past, I was due to my conditions emotionally very distant from myself (would probably qualify as alexithymia), also dissociative at times. I still can emotionally suppress the pleasure I experience and it is in fact difficult for me to allow for it during masturbation. However, since the trigger is as described nothing else but the pleasure itself, this will only delay the ejaculation (hours) for as long as I do not experience the level of pleasure required. It seems that in a somewhat ridiculous way, there is absolutely zero psychological influence on ejaculation itself other than pleasure by penile stimulation.

That is one of the key questions I have for you. If you are observant about it, you can notice the specific contractions that lead to ejaculation. What would you describe as the trigger for it, if it is not the pleasure experienced? What makes it 'worse' or faster to occur? What does sexual arousal do for you (which should already by pleasurable up to a certain threshold)? Would you say that ejaculation correlates with the accumulation of fluid in the prostate in you, regardless of sexual pleasure?


Here is what I found to worsen (that is increase) sexual pleasure directly, unfortunately it are all factors which simultaneously improve concentration and physical health:

1. My diet. It consists of large amounts (0.5-0.8kg) of half-raw fried extremely fresh and high quality pig muscle meat (ideally 10-15% fat content), very low carbohydrates by foods with low glycemic index, e.g. whole grain breads (approx. 40g), 3-4 1/4 raw fried eggs, no vegetables except for salad, a fair amount of butter and magarine, cheese and dairy products that don't contain much lactose (300g yogurt, 1L butter milk, 2-4 slices of cheese). No additives, no sauces, no candy, no simple sugars, etc. Every day without exception. Vegetables often contain estrogen-alike substances and other compounds in minor amounts that interfere with hormones, such as thyroid hormones, sex hormones and catecholamines (but not enough to be considered harmful). On the other hand, meat (especially pig meat) does contain all the amino acids, hormones and building blocks the body needs, more or less in excess. Some of those are lost faster than others due to decomposition and heating.
2. Physical fitness and exercise, especially exercise which triggers muscle growth, e.g. weight lifting which increases testosterone directly.
3. Hard erections (again caused e.g. by physical fitness and arousal)
4. Smoking. This is only true up to the point where it doesn't directly impair physical health. Tobacco acts as a stimulant and also contains MAOI.
6. L-tyrosine in high amounts, e.g. 10g (increases catecholamines metabolized directly outside of the brain)
7. Pregnenolone, yam's root extract
8. Drinking lots of diet cola. Caffeine is a stimulant and the phosphoric acid messes with the calcium balance in your body. Also destroys dental enamel.
5. In absence of my diet (that is, a regular 'healthy diet'), to a little extend at least: L-arginine, lecithin, taurine, creatine, panax-ginseng
6. Literally eating ridiculous amounts of green tea, like 20 heaped teaspoons (not drinking!). Green tea extracts do not work, they are all too weak. You might feel uncomfortable/sick by doing this. Green tea has a COMT inhibitor in it, but personally I would say that it is far outweighed by all the other active ingredients in it, besides caffeine. You might feel agitated, uncomfortable, possibly anxious, tired and dizzy. But it seems to hold off ejaculation for me, despite making me feel awful. This can be considered borderline drug abuse though, hence not particularly useful. Like doing amphetamines, cocaine, etc, which would be 100% guaranteed to work for you.

One last thing: I am extremely healthy physically, my immune system works well way beyond average and I have zero genetic conditions. I never had any physical condition or internal infection, except for self-inflicted ear infection, in my life. No broken bones, etc. When I read through the EA threads, I noticed that quite some reported various infections in their life, which I believe to be the sign of a weak immune system, potentially caused or contributed to by dietary deficits.

So anyway, I wish we could learn from each other's problems here. And I wish some of the more observant people can describe in detail how ejaculation is possible or occurs without (much) sexual pleasure.

EDIT1: Many people here think that they have adrenal fatigue and that this is potentially the cause, so I would think it helps to mention that I also do believe I have adrenal exhaustion. Due to my condition, I experience a lot of stress which also manifests on a physical level. E.g. I have hypotension if truly at rest at home, but if I am around people my blood pressure becomes normal. I went through a period of extreme stress 2 years ago, when I began to notice a sort of pain in my upper kidneys constantly and a decline in performance. If I expose myself to too much stress now it returns and I am trying to avoid it. I get tired and exhausted more quickly. This does however not affect sexual arousal or pleasure in any considerable way. Even if I have the pain and/or otherwise am impaired due to a lack of proper stress response, the orgasm/ejaculation still works like clockwork. I guess your body always holds a reserve quantity and even if you had addison's disease (the actual, severe medical equivalent of adrenal fatigue) it would still try to dump that reserve just to make you orgasm.
So, although there is a connection to pleasure/orgasm and catecholamines, that is only so in my opinion because an excess of them somewhat increases it and a lack of them only somewhat decreases it, if compared to an ideal state. But I can't see how it would justify as a cause.

I think the real cause must be in the reason why sexual pleasure is no longer the immediate trigger to ejaculation and orgasm in people with EA.

EDIT2: Another cue: I have had depression, severe anxiety issues and especially quite some drug withdrawals and experiences. They claim you can trigger ejaculation in dead people, but I have beaten it like hell on amphetamines for 24 hours straight without ejaculation. I was on drugs like LSA where one pupil would fully dilate, one would shrink and your legs would paralyze. On GHB and benzodiazepines and meth, where rubbing your feet would feel like masturbation. All that ever happened was, that my body and nervous system did not really 'get it' that I was performing a sexual act and therefore it would not trigger orgasm & ejaculation. The other reason would simply be that the tissues were anesthetized. In the withdrawals, I would feel like hell and have anxieties and I still forced myself to masturbate and it would work the same, with respect to feeling awful anyway. No drug ever caused me to ejaculate without noticeable increase in pleasure and eventually orgasm. No withdrawals ever caused an absence of the response.

That all makes me even more so conclude, that as long as you have some kind of basic low-level neurological awareness of performing a sexual act that involves penile stimulation, you will (very physically) orgasm and ejaculate all the same as a response. Maybe you can be aroused more and aroused less, but that only speeds up or delays the whole process. Regardless of what you think or feel or how messed up your nervous system and neurotransmitters in the brain are, it will not cause anything EA-alike. That is my experience. I think EA really must be due to some organ or physical abnormality that directly modifies the trigger for ejaculation. Maybe that change can also be 'learned' by the nervous system though.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 04:43:42 AM by someguy99 »

andrew_b

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Re: advice please on how to _cause_ or worsen ejaculatory anhedonia
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2013, 06:33:52 AM »
Most of us don't actually have much in the way of muscular contractions and so don't feel these triggers and we don't really have any real sensation of the prostate being full or stimulated. This seems to be at the root of our problem, a general numbness in the pelvis that prevents normal sexual sensations and this is what we are working hard to reverse. So your best bet is to find something that induces muscular tension in this area or get your doctor to give you something to address your issues. I would think they could come up with some kind of drug that would be effective.

someguy99

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Re: advice please on how to _cause_ or worsen ejaculatory anhedonia
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2013, 12:43:41 PM »
Actually there is no drug or device that induces ejaculation. The reason is, that ejaculation is caused by a series of responses, such as secretion of fluids that make up ejaculate and vessels contracting or dilating in preparation. In the final phase it is all mixed together and ejected by internal muscle and organ contractions, in the right order. Neither are there drugs without heavy side effects that do anything helpful. Medicine is just nowhere near that.

Well, there is a way you can ejaculate without arousal and orgasm, which is extreme brute force. That is a long series of high voltage electroshocks through the rectum into the whole pelvis region. It is used in extracting semen from bulls, but apparently they need full anesthesia for it because the pain is too extreme and the semen volume and sperm count is of very low volume and quality. I have tried it, but either the pain is too hard to bear with, or it won't work. I can take extreme amounts of pain, but this is far beyond what I can voluntarily inflict on myself. Needless to say, it all hurts a lot afterwards and is not very pragmatical.

I usually have no sensation of the prostate being full either. It is just when I am more aroused than it can hold, or sponge, or whatever it does. Prostate stimulation through the rectum doesn't work for me either, I guess it is not near enough, or maybe even too small.

I don't exactly understand what you mean by your pelvic region being numb and I can't see how that would cause EA. If your pelvic region was just numb generally, it would cause you to experience less stimulation, hence possibly less sexual pleasure hence only delay ejaculation. It doesn't add up to me as an explanation. To feel all the triggers during masturbation you need to pay extreme attention to it and have a very high body awareness. You would be too distracted when having actual sex to notice.

Whatever little ejaculate you have, it is caused by the very response. It doesn't just drip out. You will have to have all the specifics leading to it.


To my medical knowledge, the only way you could ejaculate (given that you are otherwise healthy, don't have brain damage, etc.) without pleasure is by spinal cord damage/abnormalities. The ejaculatory reflex is autonomous, but not in the genitals but with parts of the spinal cord.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 12:50:48 PM by someguy99 »