Author Topic: My Theory  (Read 40018 times)

Saul

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Re: My Theory
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2013, 02:31:36 PM »
This theory seems to hold promise and I will be talking to my 'psychiatrist' whome I was refered to by my gp regarding this condition and have an appointment with every three months to inquire of my progress.

RADIUM: I was in a very similar situation just a year and a bit ago where I would automatically tense my PC muscle with any stimulation of my penis. Furthermore when I was approaching ejaculation I would also tense the entire region. Since then I have controlled and largely eliminated the involuntary PC muscle tensing and I have been focusing on just stimulating my penis in a pleasurable way. This has brought me to the point having some pleasurable feeling during masturbation, but as the original poster here describes it at the point of rythmic contraction any feeling dissapears.
To improve your situation a little and get to the point I am at I would suggest the following:
Stop masturbating to ejaculate and start holding and rubbing your penis without any goal or target other than focussing on the feeling and noticing if there's anything that could be described as better than nothing. Train yourself, as I have done, to stop tensing the pc muscle just by relaxing your whole body in bed focussing on relaxing the pelvic region and just lightly touching, then grabbing your penis or rubbing it then slapping it about a bit. This will take some time but you will find you can do more and more with it before you get that annoying involuntary contraction. Slowly develop this behaviour into masturbation keeping that focus on both the relaxation of the pelvic region and the sensation in your penis.
THis has taken me several months but I would say that it has allowed me to stop the involuntary contractions, experience a pleasurable feeling when rubbing a certain area (below the lip of the glans usually covered by the foreskin) and achieve ejaculation sooner (where previously it woulld take anywhere between 10 minutes and an hour, now down to around 7 minutes) and most of the time without the strong tensing of the pelvic region.

Hope this helps
EA Dates:
No recollection of orgasm ever
Medical Conditions:
Depression 17-28
Sleep disturbances 19-28 (excessive sleep)
IBS 0-28
Hayfever 0-28
Lactose Intolerance 21-28
Drugs taken:
20-21 Fluoxetine 40mg, 21-23 Venlafaxine 75mg, 24-26 Fluoxetine 40mg Lamotrigine 200mg, 15/07/12-Now Agomela

lostmojo

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Re: My Theory
« Reply #46 on: July 18, 2013, 06:12:52 AM »
needhelpage31, on a bit of a retro research whim I decided to go back at look at your original thread on hisandherhealth. I did read it a few years ago and was struck by the similarities between you and I. But there were 3 things you mentioned that I didn't notice and/or pay much attention to the first time reading but I'm drawn to now.

  • Getting motion sickness easily, this has always been the case with me but I have the impression it has got even worse in the last 2-3 years.
  • Lack of adrenaline rush, I've become aware of this in the last 2 to 3 years, not just when I am startled but going on roller coasters and water slides I notice almost no sensation/rush from falling.
  • Allergies/sensitivities, I am more sensitive to more foods now than I ever was and my lungs/sinuses are more sensitive than I think they have ever been.

I wonder if there is a linkage between these symptoms and EA.

Saul

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Re: My Theory
« Reply #47 on: July 18, 2013, 06:43:19 AM »
lostmojo:

Interesting points you mention though I'm not sure I can see a link in a couple of them
Motion sickness: I've always had it
Adrenalin: I went skydiving in the hopes of getting an adrenalin rush and never really felt one
Allergies/intolerance: I have also had an increased intollerence of certain foods though my alergies (horse hair and hayfever) have remained constant.

The adrenalin is certainly an interesting issue because it can play a part in sexual arousal eg. doing something 'naughty,' fear of being caught/watched by a disaproving authority....etc
EA Dates:
No recollection of orgasm ever
Medical Conditions:
Depression 17-28
Sleep disturbances 19-28 (excessive sleep)
IBS 0-28
Hayfever 0-28
Lactose Intolerance 21-28
Drugs taken:
20-21 Fluoxetine 40mg, 21-23 Venlafaxine 75mg, 24-26 Fluoxetine 40mg Lamotrigine 200mg, 15/07/12-Now Agomela

lostmojo

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Re: My Theory
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2013, 12:09:15 AM »
I'm not saying you need to have those conditions to be in danger of getting EA.

However I do find it interesting that amongst quite a few things that needhelp31 and I have in common there are also issues with motion sickness, adrenaline and allergies. These issues may be a result of some underlying weakness that also contributes to EA.

Chris

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Re: My Theory
« Reply #49 on: July 29, 2013, 05:17:35 PM »
An update for group members:
I've had some time to do some testing with a TENS unit and the results were disappointing but at the same time confirmatory of my general theory.  The sensations from a TENS unit are akin to a soft electrical pulse on your skin and were quite noticeable (and even painful if you dial up the intensity enough) on other parts of my body such as thigh, calf, etc.  The penile area was completely without sensation even at intensity levels which could hurt and/or burn other skin areas.  Placing the electrodes over the path of the pudendal nerve or even over the sacral area had no impact whatsoever.  So what does this mean?

I believe it is virtually confirmatory that EA is a type of NEUROPATHY in which the critical nerve(s) have been damaged, probably from compression (but I can't prove the mechanism) and it is of such a severe degree that there is no return of nerve function over time.  I'm not sure if decompressive surgery could even restore nerve function in those of us who have been affected for 20+ years.  I would surmise that early detection/diagnosis would be key to restore nerve function. 

The results of this testing show NO evidence of a central (i.e. brain) root cause.  Even a vascular stroke would never cause a limited sensory gap in just the genital region.  The cause has to be PERIPHERAL.  Getting back to treatments, I still feel only hope would be an implantable nerve stimulator (in sacral spinal region) or perhaps some amphetamine drugs really do work to enhance neurotranmission, but don't seem practical because they are addictive and a controlled substance.

All in all, a depressing conclusion for all of us affected.  Seems like such a cruel trick to remove us of all or most sexual pleasure.  I think the medical establishment will be slow to acknowledge or even research this condition and it will always be regarded by many to be psychological in nature.  I firmly believe if there are pscyhological underpinnings they are most likely to be the result, not the cause of EA.  Perhaps those of us most fortunate on the board are the ones that never had orgasmic pleasure, since we will never know what we are missing.



xduskyx99

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Re: My Theory
« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2013, 12:01:15 PM »
Chris, I experienced the same thing. No sensation when I placed the tens unit pad on my penis. I already surmised it was nerve damage because I feel zero sensation when stroking my penis when masturbating or engaging in sex. The only part of my penis which has sensation is my glans, it's actually quite sensitive. It still doesn't result in any pleasurable feelings though when stimulated. How could my glans still be sensitive to touch though if the entire region is affected?

Chris

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Re: My Theory
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2013, 03:09:10 PM »
Good question.  I actually have the exact opposite: my glans is the most insensate and the shaft has some sensation, though I am beginning to rethink what I mean by the word "sensation".  I think the skin is very insensitive (as the TENS unit showed), but any mild pleasure I get is more from pressure of stroking which is probably recorded by pressure sensitive nerve fibers deeper inside the structure, not the sensory nerve endings in the foreskin, which to my knowledge, are really where all the action is from a sexual pleasure POV.

I think these variabilities probably relate to different types and degrees of nerve compression.  Most fibers which travel to the glans, for example, may be deep inside the nerve bundle and foreskin fibers could be more peripheral.  This is well known for other parts of the body.  The fibers are arranged according to location.  So depending on exact nature of compression, some fibers may be more compromised than others.  The end result is the same:  marked attenuation of nerve stimulation reaching sacral spine cord and brain.  The pleasure center in the brain is not receving any stimuli, so although arousal and the mechanics of sex are working perfectly, pleasure is not transduced. 

xduskyx99

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Re: My Theory
« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2013, 05:59:51 PM »
I believe my EA is a form of premature ejaculation, because I practically force myself to ejaculate before any buildup to normal orgasm has occurred. This buildup however is impossible because I feel no sensation or pleasure while masturbating or engaging in sexual intercourse. I basically tense up my muscles, forcing myself to ejaculate. If I didn't do this I think I could masturbate forever with no buildup or ejaculation. I'm going to try this sometime though, lying down completely relaxed, and see if after an hour of masturbating any buildup occurs. When the nerves are fully functioning it's supposed to be a natural, involuntary buildup until it can no longer be contained. I have never felt any sense of release.

Another argument in favor of pudendal nerve entrapment is that one of the listed symptoms is lower back pain. I have had issues with my lower back for years now, especially when lying down unless the bedding is extremely soft and perfect. On most beds I need to place something under my lower back, like a rolled up towel, in order to support it to prevent discomfort. This when I'm only 22.

Do you know if various stretches could help with compressed pudendal nerves?
« Last Edit: July 30, 2013, 06:14:11 PM by xduskyx99 »

TriumphForks

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Re: My Theory
« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2013, 09:27:41 PM »
May I just ask, Chris, how can one lose so much sensitivity from pudendal crush without any loss in continence?
Loss of sensation and loss of muscle function go hand in hand, can you really have one without the other?

Chris

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Re: My Theory
« Reply #54 on: August 03, 2013, 12:35:57 PM »
Good question.  And you've managed to point out one of the weaknesses of my theory.  I have thought about the other fibers in the pudendal nerve, which are motor as well as autonomic.  One would expect deficits in other departments as you presume if the compression were early on in the course of the nerve, when its still in Alcock's canal, for example.  One possible explanation is the compression is quite distal, meaning just as the nerve makes its final branch to the "dorsal nerve of the penis".  If the compression is here, continence would remain intact since its controlled by branches which have already divided.  One issue which I cannot readily explain by my theory is that penile erection seems to remain intact.  I would expect compression of autonomic fibers in the dorsal nerve to impair control of vascular tone which prompts penile engorgement or erection.  I, for one, have no trouble achieving or maintaining erection, so these fibers must be intact.  I also have normal sensation to temperature (hot or cold) and I seem to feel pain if my foreskin is pinched.  What is lacking is tactile or touch stimulation.  It is bizarre, I agree...and not readily explained by a pudendal crush syndrome.  I have not completely discounted the likelihood that it may be a central/brain problem in the limbic system.  I just think it is less likely.  Certainly, the SSRI group have proven to me that biochemical modification in the brain can change the brain (i.e. the brain is more plastic than I had imagined), opening up the possibility that EA could be the result of perhaps behavioral issues that we all share in common?

NoFun

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Re: My Theory
« Reply #55 on: August 03, 2013, 08:57:59 PM »
I believe my EA is a form of premature ejaculation, because I practically force myself to ejaculate before any buildup to normal orgasm has occurred. This buildup however is impossible because I feel no sensation or pleasure while masturbating or engaging in sexual intercourse. I basically tense up my muscles, forcing myself to ejaculate. If I didn't do this I think I could masturbate forever with no buildup or ejaculation.

I think I'm similar. I don't think the fundamental problem is in the tensing up, that's just my reaction to the same lack of buildup and release. Like you, I last forever without the tensing up. I'm sure that learned behaviour isn't helpful, and the ejaculations aren't enjoyable, but at least they end the arousal.

sensation

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Re: My Theory
« Reply #56 on: August 04, 2013, 09:01:03 AM »
Good question.  And you've managed to point out one of the weaknesses of my theory.  I have thought about the other fibers in the pudendal nerve, which are motor as well as autonomic.  One would expect deficits in other departments as you presume if the compression were early on in the course of the nerve, when its still in Alcock's canal, for example.  One possible explanation is the compression is quite distal, meaning just as the nerve makes its final branch to the "dorsal nerve of the penis".  If the compression is here, continence would remain intact since its controlled by branches which have already divided.  One issue which I cannot readily explain by my theory is that penile erection seems to remain intact.  I would expect compression of autonomic fibers in the dorsal nerve to impair control of vascular tone which prompts penile engorgement or erection.  I, for one, have no trouble achieving or maintaining erection, so these fibers must be intact.  I also have normal sensation to temperature (hot or cold) and I seem to feel pain if my foreskin is pinched.  What is lacking is tactile or touch stimulation.  It is bizarre, I agree...and not readily explained by a pudendal crush syndrome.  I have not completely discounted the likelihood that it may be a central/brain problem in the limbic system.  I just think it is less likely.  Certainly, the SSRI group have proven to me that biochemical modification in the brain can change the brain (i.e. the brain is more plastic than I had imagined), opening up the possibility that EA could be the result of perhaps behavioral issues that we all share in common?

I'm not ruling out a nerve entrapment as a problem... And I'm sorry to repeat myself, but I lost sexual sensations in my whole body simultaneously, not only in my penis. I still get erections and can ejaculate, but only with some effort (tensing the muscles inside, trying to sqeeze my prostate). If I didn't do that, it would take me a lot of time to ejaculate, as my body doesn't enter the natural circuit of sensations leading to build up sexual tension and release. It is becoming harder for me to cope with this situation as time goes by, and getting to ejaculate is much more difficult than in the beginning.

The problem is, no matter how many doctos I can contact, they run the usual tests, then either dismiss my symptoms, say that it's psychological or just don't know what to do, and they do nothing. Until now I found nobody who wants to test something new, just try things out or anything. Whatever, except doing nothing. I don't think this is psychological (I'm lacking a physical sensation I knew well), but this has already affected my mind. For me, abstinence is almost the only thing to do, and it's hard because I have a strong desire.

Is there any chance that you as a doctor, or any colleages can spread the word? Just mention the case to colleages and they do the same. I wish I could try stimulants or any other things mentioned in this forum, but I'm just hitting a wall. It's frustrating.

searchingforcure11

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Re: My Theory
« Reply #57 on: August 04, 2013, 07:19:20 PM »
Stimulants are awesome.  Too bad you cant get a doc to prescribe.  Its a shame people abuse things and ruin it for others.  I take the pills when I need them and I have had no addiction at all to them.  I actually have too many pills because I dont need to take them every day.  Not only does the pills help with sex and feeling again it helps with other things such as music and just having more emotion and feeling more.  I find a good song gives me goosebumps a lot more when I am taking the pills as opposed to not taking the pills.  With getting off I feel goosebumps a lot too and my whole body feels pleasure.   

Kstat

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Re: My Theory
« Reply #58 on: August 16, 2013, 08:49:00 AM »
Wow, it's been months since my first post. If I remember right, the reason I didn't respond right away was because I saw Chris's post about how the surgeon suggested his issues were psychological and it really bummed me out. Surely we'd remember if we'd been sexually abused or weren't attracted to our partners or something else that could be psychological? I was really disappointed since that Dr. sounded like he could help.

So I tried to put it out of my mind for a while, but my mind always comes back to it. Your story reminded me of myself, Chris, in that I (I'm female) had a couple orgasms as an adolescent (between 10-12), and then the pleasure in masturbating just went completely away. Well, not overnight like I think was the case with Chris, but more slowly over the course of two years until it was completely gone at around age 14. The one thing that's different from most of you though is I never actually get to the point of orgasm, so I don't get those "ghost" orgasms that many of you describe. I'm not sure if it's the same pathology, or if I have nerve entrapment, I just think I essentially have the same problem you all have.

I'm 21 now. Chris's recent experiment with the TENs has me feeling kind of disappointed. I like to hope that even if there's been some damage, things can still be improved even if it's never back to normal. Even though it seems so random to have anatomical differences that compress your nerves, this condition in itself is rare so I'm not ruling it out as a cause. My family was big on going on super long, family bike rides as a child and I wonder if that could contribute- at least in someone that's already predisposed.

Do you have plans as far as what you're going to do with your results, Chris? I find this fascinating even though it's disappointing.

Yanni

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Re: My Theory
« Reply #59 on: August 19, 2013, 06:45:55 AM »
I was watching a documentary on female orgasm recently and they suggested that the nerve bundles which leave the clitoris and run parallel to the vagina are stimulated by being forced outwards rhythmically by a thrusting penis and contribute to development of the orgasm.

I'm guessing that men have similar nerve bundles running the length of the penile shaft and, whilst they can't be rhythmically forced outwards, they can be rhythmically forced inwards.  I would suggest that this type of pressure is not necessarily felt as pleasurable in itself, but can act as a kind of stimulus towards orgasm in conjunction with other stimuli.  There is also anecdotal evidence that men like a "tight" space to thrust into, so maybe this is part of that shaft pressure thing.

The reason I mention it, is because I watched another program where a woman was telling other women how to give a blow job.  Her technique involved using the mouth to give a warm moist environment to the glans and an encircling hand to provide pressure to the shaft.

I find this interesting, because I never received any education about this dual stimulation technique and it never occurred to me to try the combination:  pressure to the shaft plus warm/moist/slippery stimulation of the glans.

I'm wondering whether part of the problem is that with EA, we have lost some of the natural sensitivity to triggers (or else they have become out of sync) and perhaps require a more specific combination of sensations to overcome the orgasmic threshold.  That combo might be somewhat difficult to achieve in normal circumstances or without a supportive partner.

For myself, I noticed a major libido reduction when I developed chronic fatigue and myalgia and the subsequent loss of most of the orgasmic sensation that I did have (not that it was that great anyway).  I put this down to the constant low level muscle pain competing with orgasmic triggers, but also the fact that my penile skin emits tearing pain signals when even slightly stretched, even though the skin is not initially tight or stretched.  I think anyone who has had a headache has generally experienced a loss of desire and potential to orgasm.  Pain is a danger signal and I believe our bodies are designed to give pain attention over pleasure.  I have experienced this pain for so long that I'm not sure if it consciously registers anymore, but I am sure that it is somehow blocking orgasms.

As a final comment, there is anecdotal evidence that some women do not experience orgasms and require specific training to facilitate its development, yet every man is supposed to naturally perform and experience orgasms.  I put it to you that some men also require "training" and not the type of self-help that we are accustomed to.  I believe it is quite possible that we learn poor techniques because we don't know any better, (no-one ever told us the right approach) and if we do hit on something that feels good, we may not explore it to its full potential because we are unaware how far we actually can go.  Then when something robs us of what we are used to, we have no idea that anything else is possible and we add despair to our misery.

I'm convinced that more is known about the female orgasm and its impediments than the male orgasm and this is because men are just supposed to work like machines and no-one questions it:  dysfunction has been, until recently, incomprehensible.

I was trying to make some coherent statement with this post, but it seems to have got away from me.