Author Topic: Pudendal Nerve  (Read 46444 times)

lostmojo

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Pudendal Nerve
« on: February 15, 2010, 02:44:59 AM »
I think I just had an "A HA" moment.

From wikipedia: "Many doctors also do not recommend inducing retrograde ejaculation due to the risk of putting pressure on the pudendal nerve. Such pressure can cause numbness in the penis."



I am wondering if holding the semen in (like I did many times when I was in my teens) caused it to flow back into the bladder. Therefore this put pressure on the pudendal nerve, which is why I have numbness in the penis? Or even if it did not flow back into the bladder it still put pressure on the pudendal nerve.

I'm pretty sure I do not have retrograde ejaculations because I don't recall ever seeing cloudy urine the next time I needed to urinate after sex.

lostmojo

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Re: Pudendal Nerve
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2010, 02:55:23 AM »
"The pudendal nerve is responsible for proper functioning and control of urination, defecation and orgasm in both males and females.

Located deep within the pelvic region, the pudendal nerve emerges from the base of the spinal cord (sacral area), and separates into three branches.

One branch goes to the anal-rectal area. The second branch goes to the perineum - the sensitive area between the anus and penis or vagina. The third branch goes to the penis or clitoris itself."



"Because the it carries signals between the brain and the pelvic organs (bladder, genitals, prostate, colon), serious problems can occur in the event of an injury. These include:

1) Urinary incontinence
2) Bowel problems
3) Prostate disorders
4) Sexual dysfunction
5) Painful sexual intercourse
6) Pudendal neuralgia
7) Pudendal nerve entrapment (PNE)

The last two are chronic conditions which can cause great pain in lower pelvic areas (scrotum and penis, vagina, perineum, anal region).

In short, life loses most of its joys and pleasures when this 'mission control' pelvic nerve is injured. There are many ways that this can happen - cycling, pregnancy, accidents and scarring due to surgery."

Apparently pudendal damage can also happen from western style sitting toilets, for more info see: http://www.toilet-related-ailments.com/pudendal-nerve.html

lostmojo

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Re: Pudendal Nerve
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2010, 03:04:09 AM »
I think this is the only thing that fits for me. I am not sexually sensitive on the penis, the perineum or the anal-rectal area and they all connect up to the pudendal nerve which then relays the information to the brain.

The question is what can be done about it?

"The pudendal nerve, which weaves its way through the pelvic floor muscles, is not designed to cope with the repeated downward movements of the pelvic floor. It can suffer from what is known as nerve stretch injury, when it is stretched by as little as 12%."

I'd like to see this information verified somewhere else besides "www.toilet-related-ailments.com".
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 03:56:07 AM by lostmojo »

AlBrown

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Re: Pudendal Nerve
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2010, 08:04:48 PM »
I'm glad you created a section for this.  The bulk of my research has been in this area and I have seen these exact pictures and many others.  If you really want a good way to see what's going on down there I found the 3D software "Interactive Pelvis and Perineum" to be the best (by Primal Pictures).  You can really follow the nerve pathway and muscles involved.  If interested, email me and I can help set you up.  Also, here is the reply from the other forum:


"I am currently being treated for the pudendal nerve (pudendal neuralgia). Similar symptoms as you, numbness in perineum, penis etc. You are right that the symptoms can be caused without entrapment. As of now they feel my nerve was stretched due to a twisted sacrum (where the nerve originates from) from a bad slip i had (since readjusted). Along with the nerve being stretched, my muscles overcompensated for the displacement and may also be interfering with the nerve. I had biofeedback and my muscles were indeed in an abnormal state of tension. I'm praying this was the problem and hopefully will make some progress.

I'd be happy to answer any questions to help.

lostmojo

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Re: Pudendal Nerve
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2010, 02:26:47 AM »
That's great AlBrown thanks.

My first question to you is what sort of health practitioner(s) are you seeing? This is something I am willing to pursue treatment for but I'm not sure what discipline is best equipped to help.

Like many others I've been going around in circles for the last 2 years with theories about what the problem could be. It's kind of the more you know the less you know.

EDO seemed like a good candidate but somehow it doesn't match up right. I got excited about pudendal nerve entrapment but when I read the symptoms I thought again this is not quite right. That is until yesterday when I found out that you don't necessarily have to have searing pain and other problems for there to be a pudendal nerve problem.

I very well think this might be what myself, needhelp31, MichaelSad, yourself and others from the lack of sexual sensations brigade are suffering from. That is why I called it an "A HA" moment and I was quite surprised that no one else seem interested, until your reply that is.

AlBrown

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Re: Pudendal Nerve
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2010, 08:22:40 PM »
Unfortunately it is a rare condition and overlooked by mainstream medical communites so there are only a handful of people who can help.  I will post my reply to needhelp on the other board to rehash some of the avenues to try


"Yes, the tension was found by manual manipulation (internal and external) , ultrasounds and also biofeedback tests.

To be perfectly honest, I was like you and had none of the symptoms of PN in the beginning...just lack of sensitivity and EA. Over time I have developed a few common ones but never to the degree of some of the horror stories out there. There are a lot of symptoms and they vary on the severity of the nerve disruption and cause. Sounds like if you have it, it is minor but any disruption to this nerve slight or severe, shuts it down and it can sometimes take awhile to recover after it is fixed. I have seen less severe cases are recovered in an average of 6 - 8 weeks, usually within 3 months. More severe cases can take months or sometime years to recover.

As for treatment, a pelvic floor physical therapist who has training in PN is a great place to start. They really understand it and have a lot of tricks up their sleeves and can point you in other areas based on what they find. Finding the cause is the most difficult and it can range from pelvic misalignment, muscle tension, joint or ligament dysfunction, scar tissue, adhesion etc. You just have to keep ruling things out. So far in my case, my sacrum was twisted where the nerve originates so an adjustment was done. As a result my joint was out of place too. Hoping that was it but still trying other things. Either the PT or a chiro can help for that. For the muscles, ligaments, and tendons, depending on the experience of the PT...they can usually do it or they will send you to a good clinical massgage therapist whose has training in trigger point therapy, myofascial release, and sometimes acupuncture. Not a relaxation type massage...this stuff hurts!

As far as doctors, there are very few and the main guy is in France. Dr. Filler in CA has a technology which is debatable but may be worth a try (MR Neurography). Relatively new so not covered by many insurances but supposedly can find pudendal nerve disruptions. You can also have an EMG or a pudendal nerve motor latency test (PNMLT). Dr Antolak in MN is supposedly a good place for this.

This is a very little researched area so not too many mainstream docs can help or even know about it. Hope this helps!"
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 08:46:50 PM by AlBrown »

lostmojo

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Re: Pudendal Nerve
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2010, 05:48:50 AM »
AlBrown it seems to me that an osteopath could be good possibly for pudendal nerve treatment given their knowledge of bones and muscles. Or a non western style therapist, like a chinese doctor who also knows acupuncture.

On another note I have owned one of these for nearly a year: http://www.diadens.com/diadens.html

"The DiaDENS-T and DiaDENS-DT are new devices used for a new method of treatment - dynamic electric neurostimulation. The portable DiaDENS device combines the facilities of reflex diagnos tics and reflex therapy."


To be honest I don't really know how to use it properly but it seems to me like it could be useful for us. I'll have to go back and look at the manuals and see if there is anything that means something to me in relation to the pudendal nerve. You can use it on body meridians or energy points, kind of like acupuncture. I have tried it on my penis directly and after some minutes it resulted in a weak ejaculation with absolutely no sense of orgasm. Makes me think all the more that perhaps everything is ok downstairs but the signals just aren't getting through to the brain.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 03:32:48 PM by lostmojo »

AlBrown

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Re: Pudendal Nerve
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2010, 07:59:39 PM »
Great find!!! I have read a lot of studies about electric nerve stimulation and had no idea how to go about it.  Most of the studies were for treatment after pudendal decompression surgery and a few from other non related surgeries where the pudendal nerve was injured from doing it in the "prone" position creating traction on the nerve from the pelvic table.  The idea was to help stimulate the nerve into action again and it seemed to have positive results.  Also, this technique was mentioned by one of my PT's claiming it helps getting the blood flow moving, as well as helping the muscles and nerves.  Any kind of stimulation like this helps and I have had similar treatments for back problems.  I'm curious if this device would be an acceptable form for this so I am going to dig around a bit.  Thanks for the info!


Yes, that does sound like someone who can help.  I'm sure you've seen this before from previous posts or research but if not, here is a good list of PT's with training in the pudendal nerve (indicated by **).

http://www.pudendal.info/node/16
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 08:29:44 PM by AlBrown »

lostmojo

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Re: Pudendal Nerve
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2010, 03:36:03 PM »
Electrical acupuncture at the pudendal nerve may be effective in the treatment of pudendal discomfort due to chronic pelvic pain syndrome (CPPS):

http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200521/000020052105A0812622.php

I realize most of us are not in pain but interesting nevertheless that electrical acupuncture has a positive effect.

lostmojo

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Re: Pudendal Nerve
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2010, 03:40:10 PM »
This is most interesting:
http://slightesttouch.com/for_men.html

"Electro Stimulation is the easiest way to that mind-blowing, full body orgasm."
This is the product http://www.slightesttouch.com/

"By stimulating the exact spot with a mild electrical tickle (delivered by an electrode pad that sticks to the skin), a series of stimulating pulses travel up nerve pathways in the legs to the sexual nerves responsible for arousal and sexual response. There are three main nerve bundles in the pelvic region (in medicine, they are called the Pudendal, Hypogastric, and Pelvic)."

I think we should do some research on the Hypogastric and Pelvic nerves as well.

AlBrown

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Re: Pudendal Nerve
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2010, 10:27:09 PM »
Interesting.  I do believe in the concept but trying to figure out how it can innerverate the pelvis from the ankle.  All of the nerves we are troubled with derive from the sacral plexis.  Certainly wouldn't hurt to try I suppose since most of us are grasping for straws. 

You mentioned that you have issues in all 3 of the nerve branches which seems to indicate the problem may reside somewhere above where the pudendal nerve branches off.  Have you ever had back problems or an MRI in this area?

lostmojo

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Re: Pudendal Nerve
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2010, 02:42:12 AM »
I very occasionally get a sore back, I'm not talking really sore, once maybe twice a year at most. Usually from weight lifting where I might just twinge something and then I'm a bit stiff for 3 or 4 days, certainly nothing chronic. I've never had an MRI anywhere.

All 3 areas that connect up to the pudendal behave the same way. They're not numb but in terms of being touched on any of them it's really not much different to being touched on the arm. That is there is no problems feeling it but there's certainly very little additional sensation.

The only exception is strong touching directly to the frenulum, this does give some buildup but I would guess at an intensity of 1/3 or less than what I would have got from light touching prior to AE. It's as if the signals are getting through but they're greatly reduced. The sort of skin stimulation I get from intercourse can result in almost instant ejaculation, zero buildup, zero orgasm sensation, it's like a reflex action.

I looked up the DiaDENS manual and for sexual dysfunction the points it says to apply the device to are between the navel and pubic bone, the perineum, the scrotum, the lumber region and between the 2nd and 3rd fingers.

I've started using it on myself on those points. That last point is about as abstract as the ankle point used by the "Slightest Touch". Acupressure points are a bit like that, there are all these trigger points in your feet for various internal body organs too.

I'm trying to do some yoga like stretching too, I'm guessing my whole pelvic area is extremely tight. I haven't had many because they don't give me a great deal of pleasure but I have been told by massage therapists that my muscles are very tight, I am certainly not the most supple person!
« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 03:07:22 AM by lostmojo »

chmchm

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Re: Pudendal Nerve
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2010, 05:17:15 PM »
I'm trying to do some yoga like stretching too, I'm guessing my whole pelvic area is extremely tight. I haven't had many because they don't give me a great deal of pleasure but I have been told by massage therapists that my muscles are very tight, I am certainly not the most supple person!

I have tried to do some yoga as well, I read somewhere that someone had a spinal injury which resulted in ejaculatory anhedonia, and he had a chiropractor do something to his lower back and he said he had got orgasms back for a little bit.

lostmojo

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Re: Pudendal Nerve
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2010, 02:17:22 PM »
Here's another device that may be of interest:

"The Dr. Erector device is a portable electric stimulator designed for soothing of the rectal muscles and prostate gland by continuous electrical pulses. An electric stimulator allows non-invasive therapy for inflammations and dysfunctions in the rectal area by emitting continuous electrical pulses.

These electrical pulses activate metabolic processes, facilitate a protective reaction, stimulate muscle activity and stimulate blood circulation in the pelvic area. This leads to drainage of blood congestion, cleansing of tissues, restoration of nerve conduction, and greater activation of rectal muscles and the prostate.

Electrical pulses relieve pain and cause a neurotropic effect that stimulates the body's own repair processes. Improvement of neurotropic function and blood circulation influences the brain and spinal cord and leads to greatly improved sexual function."

http://www.drerector.com/how_it_works.php

AlBrown

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Re: Pudendal Nerve
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2010, 07:54:19 PM »
Lostmojo:
 I have been going down this path as well and will let you know my results once the devices arrive.  I ordered one Tens unit and another EMS unit from the following site:

http://www.tens.co.uk/